Curse

Align · Apr 04, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kais Unduli

The only sundering mod I use is on one of my hammers. 'Cause hitting for over 100 dmg is fun.

Uhh, if you're not hitting for 100+ without sundering you're definitely doing something wrong...

The Muffen Man · Apr 04, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Align

Uhh, if you're not hitting for 100+ without sundering you're definitely doing something wrong...

seconded my hammer warrior hits for well over 100 sans sundering

Katari · Apr 04, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I'm convinced a large percentage of players who favor sundering, confuse critical hits with a sundering trigger.

Also, I'm not entierly sure why people seem to like Furious so much as well. A 10% chance at one extra strike of adrenaline isn't anything special.

Align · Apr 04, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Now if there was a critical hits grip, there'd be some serious competition. +5% chance? I dunno.

SchwarzKnight · Apr 04, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marksmen of Hell

btw, i use a vampiric flatbow with FW(+6dmg), kindle arow(+18dmg), and conjure flame(+10 dmg) for an added +39 dmg to the base dmg of the bow PER HIT

Err, that there conjure isn't doing jack. Conjure only adds dmg when you're already using an elemental weapon of the same element. In your case, you'd need a Fiery mod. Otherwise, it's a waste of 10 energy. Unless you're using a + while enchanted, in which case you'd probably be better suited to go R/Mo and use Judge's to actually get some effect out of your enchantment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Vampiric Strings: here we go, the so loved vampiric. 5 extra damages with a perfect vampiric, I guess everybody agrees with the fact that's great. Yeah, but there is the malus. -1 health degen. In a PvE barrage built you can forget it (the malus I mean). But when you're under preasure in a tight fight, umm. Use the vampiric when you're fine. If you're in trouble, considering the fact that it takes 2sec minimum to shoot an arrow (without skills), that may just make you die quicker.

In general unmolested usage, the vamp mod is about enough to maintain your health, while adding 5 unconditional dmg on every hit. One pip degen is only 2 hp/second damage, so as long as you get in a hit every 2.5 sec, you'll at least be maintaining. Even if not, I would certainly call that one pip negligible. Granted, you want to have a non-vamp bow to carry when not in combat, but in general combat, it's the best bow string to have. Adding to the Zealous sidebar, you only need to score a hit every 3 seconds to offset the loss of regen. Where vamp (and zealous, for that matter) really shines is in volume. When using barrage or a typical dual/savage combo for spiking, you're getting 3 or more hits in the space of about a second for 15+ dmg unconditional, not to mention the hp gain outweighs the 2-4 dmg you take from the mod. If you're under any kind of IAS buff, such as Tiger's Fury or Lightning Reflexes, then you'll be getting the equivalent of another bow attack or three over the course of the stance from just the vamp mod.

These examples also extend to the warrior. The Warrior's DPS is gotten solely by melee hits in volume, so a vamp wep will only supplement you in your strength. Only thing you need to remember to do is switch out when not in immediate combat. And maybe when fresh off a non-sig res.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Assuming you're using Apply Poison the Poisoner's String outperforms Sundering by a landslide. Outperforms the elemental strings too.

I'd be curious to know how the numbers stack up in the Poisoner's vs. elemental comparison. Both are best when used in conjunction with a skill (Apply or Poison Arrow vs. Conjure), though Conjure can be a bit of a liability with enchantment removal, and Apply has to be applied twice to Conjure's once (or 5 Apply to every 2 Conjure to be more exact), though Apply's affected by Expertise where Conjure isn't. Elemental strings, especially when chosen appropriately (and with some luck) can circumvent a lot of armor bonuses out there, such as the +20 from Glad's armor. Anyway, both have pro's and con's, and I'm interested in the logic behind your statement.

NatalieD · Apr 05, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchwarzKnight

Err, that there conjure isn't doing jack. Conjure only adds dmg when you're already using an elemental weapon of the same element. In your case, you'd need a Fiery mod.

Kindle Arrows causes a bow to do fiery damage, so no bowstring is needed.

Shiko · Apr 05, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Sundering Sucks end of story

Murder In China · Apr 05, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Vampiric > Sundering hands down.

Haggard · Apr 05, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Also, I'm not entierly sure why people seem to like Furious so much as well. A 10% chance at one extra strike of adrenaline isn't anything special.

Furious is nice, as it gives you something that doesnt degen you when not in combat, and in an entirely adrenal based build (like ragemending) compliements your fighting style very well.

stickyballs · Apr 05, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Vampiric is good because it gives life stealing at the cost of one pip of HP degeneration. Furious is good because it gives you a 10% chance to get Dbl Adrenaline at no cost. Sundering on the other hand...just plain sucks. It's kind of like 1% AP an attack, lol. Why is it prized? Because it is rare. I find 3/1 Vamp gold swords A LOT more than 10/10 Sundering gold swords. If something is rare, people think it is good. So they think it is really valuable, they want to put it on their swords and then go about and brag. Whatever, sundering SUCKS.

Haggard · Apr 05, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

"Im wielding a sundering longb--"
Hag: "SUNDERING NOOOOO!"

Metanoia · Apr 05, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Well first off, I think posting to only say that surrending users are morons is a bit cheap...

Just a quick story before I try to defend surrending bow strings:

...[snip]...

*snicker*

Okay, it was a good post anyway. So, er... yeah. Since Sundering and Furious are the only mods without a drawback, it's somewhat understandable why some people would use Sundering if they had no adrenaline skills. Personally I think it's got more to do with the fact it's rare, you know... the same reason people "flash" their greens.

Also, to anyone who's thrown insults at the collector-types. Unless you're running around in drok's armour and wielding collector weapons, you're being rather hypocritical.

Thallandor · Apr 05, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I am inclined to say each to his own but i think each mod type shine in specific build types used either in PvP or Farming in PvE.

For example:

Horn bows with sundering string, judges, sundering shot and read the wind for spike or farming undead.

Sword with Furious hilt, hundred blades, sever, gash, Galrath Slash and Balthazar's Aura to farm trolls/ettins.

quickmonty · Apr 05, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Five reasons:

1) PvE players do not understand weapon swapping, or they do not believe in doing it. They want their one Ub3R weapon that they keep out *ALL* the time.
2) PvE players do not like things with drawbacks. When the math is poorly understood (ala, it doesn't make numbers on their character screen go up) they use things without drawbacks.
3) PvE players would much rather run around with terrible equipment that 'looks cool' than use something that's actually good.
4) 10/10 sundering is the rarest prefix for bows, and ties for rarest on melee weapons. If there's one thing we've learned from MMOs, it's that rarity = cool.
5) Everyone else likes sundering, and they're paying huge money for it, so if you want to be cool like the masses you need it too.

Peace,
-CxE

Thanks you Ensign, for painting all PvE players with your prejudiced brush, and re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

Vindexus · Apr 05, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Thanks you Ensign, for painting all PvE players with your prejudiced brush, and re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

So you're saying he's wrong? You realise how ridiculous that sounds don't you?

"Ensign isn't right" <---- LOLOLOL

Katari · Apr 05, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Thanks you Ensign, for painting all PvE players with your prejudiced brush, and re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

Eh, I can't see a way to refute his points regardless of how harsh you think they may be.

Swords swing at a rate of once every 1.33 seconds. That is 0.75atk/s, 45atk/min. Furious will trigger an average of 4.5 times per min. One attack is worth 25 strikes of adrenaline, and on average, furious will generate 1.875 strikes of adrenaline per second. Evicerate takes 200 strikes to charge fully. Sure, it's better under IAS... 60 attacks per second will generate rougly 2.5 strikes of adrenaline per second. Under Battle Rage, you'll generate 3.75 strikes of adrenaline per second, keeping in mind that one physical attack is worth 25. Heck, under battle rage you might generate enough adreanline from furious to squeze in another exe-strike per min. Or you could take the extra damage from vamp. Keep in mind that when attacking a warrior, an elemental weapon will deal more damage than vamp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Assuming you're using Apply Poison the Poisoner's String outperforms Sundering by a landslide. Outperforms the elemental strings too.

I think the idea here is that a ranger using apply posion, will be rotating targets. The extra 33% duration, even if it extends Apply Posion's duration by only a second, will deal more damage than sundering. An elemental string would only deal extra damage to a warrior. Since you'd be likely be rotating targets with an apply posion ranger, extra damage to just a few targets isn't really important, especialy when those targets aren't a priority.

stickyballs · Apr 05, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Ensign, not all PvE people have terrible equipment. Yes, I will admit, many do wear Platemail to look cool...but a lot of people wear Glad's. That is what core warrior PvP players wear even though it makes them look like a porn-star wannabe.

For *many* PvE players, fashion > function. But *some* PvE players do have good equipment and use the Drok's 15^50 weps and customize them w/ perf. mods. It isn't common as everyone wants to show off their Felly or Crystalline, but there are some PvE players who value function > fashion. Not everyone of course, but there are *some* people.

Thallandor · Apr 05, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyballs

Ensign, not all PvE people have terrible equipment. Yes, I will admit, many do wear Platemail to look cool...but a lot of people wear Glad's. That is what core warrior PvP players wear even though it makes them look like a porn-star wannabe.

lol i though they look more like AFL football players with the chest set and helm

porn-star wannabes....i am gonna have fun with this next time i see one.

Metanoia · Apr 05, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Vindexus/Katari,

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Thanks you Ensign, for painting all PvE players with your prejudiced brush, and re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

He wasn't disputing that Sundering has no real use and barely beats "un-modded", he was refering to Ensign's passive "PvE players are morons" mannerisms.

Ensign · Apr 05, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Thanks you Ensign, for...re-enforcing the notion that PvP players are leet snobs.

Thank you for reinforcing the notion that PvE players are hypersensitive morons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyballs

Ensign, not all PvE people have terrible equipment.

Do I honestly have to spell out explicitly that I'm talking about generalities, about the norms, about what is typical instead of extreme, with every single comment? Can't I assume that when we're talking about popularity, demograpics, and trends that we're only interested in what is common?

Do you honestly think that I'm so stupid that you have to explain to me that not every single PvE player is concerned with form over function?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyballs

Yes, I will admit, many do wear Platemail to look cool...but a lot of people wear Glad's.

Which group is a vast majority? Which group forms the bulk of the economy in this game and drives prices?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metanoia

passive "PvE players are morons" mannerisms.

Dispute with evidence that the five mentioned observations are not accurate representations of the general PvE population.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that I'm a bad person or that stereotypes are unfair, or anything else you happen to dislike about me bringing them up. But ask yourself why any of those arguments are even relevant. The only argument that will crush any stereotype is that it's not true. If it's not true it's pretty easy to see that it's ridiculous, and poof, no more stereotype.

But you know what?

Most stereotypes are true. Not only are they true, but they hurt because they're true.

Peace,
-CxE